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some permaculture questions

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Rockhound View Drop Down
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  Quote Rockhound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2008 at 8:48am
nomadx~ Hello and welcome. You make some good points worth thinking about for sure. Traditionally farmers and folks living a sustainable lifestyle have to have that broad range of skills, to be able to fix things and keep the place going.
If you or your partner or other family member doesn't have a certain needed skill then you have to develop a community connection with someone that does. Get to know your neighbors and find out what they like to do and what they're good at, might surprise you AND you won't have to do everything yourself. Learn to barter skills/goods/services.
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  Quote WVgal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2008 at 9:17am
Good point, Rockhound. :)
A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise. - Aldo Leopold
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  Quote nomadx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2008 at 10:21am
thanks for all replies, apparently there is a wide range of opinion for the concept of sustainability.
 
I. relying mostly on manual labor ('people power')
Hard labor is the best thing for your body.  You just have to be used to it. 
Purchase good quality tools that are designed well. Before you purchase, make sure they "fit" and work well with YOUR body.
 
 
II. relying on electricity and machines (knowledge and skills)
Nomadx, any of that old machinery you mentioned can always be repaired, welded, or subsitute parts installed, or made.
That Old machinery was built to be repaired, it,s very basic stuff.
Our PV panels are more than adequate to take care of all these devices...plus electric tools
choose an energy efficient dishwasher, you'll use less than 6 gallons of water
 
III. relying on friends and family (which i didn't really consider)
If you or your partner or other family member doesn't have a certain needed skill then you have to develop a community connection with someone that does.
 
admittedly this last one i did not consider because i've barely ever done this. usually, you just pay someone to teach you skills, or to give you supplies. in my experience if you approach a stranger and offer to pay in exchange for something, the relationship becomes a business relationship. while personal friendship is possible it's primarily business.
 
if however you meet someone on equal ground as you trying to get this whole lifestyle going it's 2 people who have found something in common.
 
 
i'm not too good at that kind of thing, i mean obviously you don't go to someone's house and introduce yourself; i'd prefer to meet up with someone at a farmer's market or fair as a better atmosphere.
 
 
 
 
i'm sure it's possible to, over the years, become a jack of all trades fixing and building all the stuff you need. if you're really lucky you figure out how to make use of all the materials on your own land and need nothing else. but for sure, it's easiest of all when you have a network of friends who will trade with you.
right now we all still use cash as the medium to trade, but perhaps someday the car and the dollar will be worthless and we use horses and direct trade like in the 1800s. if that time comes, it will be vital to have friends closeby, preferably everyone on the street and to know everyone in town.
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  Quote lunamother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2008 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by nomadx

i mean obviously you don't go to someone's house and introduce yourself;


you DON'T?Confused

no wonder I get all those funny looks.....Ermm

Welcome NomadX- and happy learning- the first thing to learn is that what works for one person, may not work for another- hence all the differing opinions.

...doesn't mean we're not all 'right'LOL
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  Quote owl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2008 at 11:10pm
the old saw about dishwashers using less water and electricity than hand washing must be a ploy by the manufacturers.  i wash dishes every other day (cuts down water use) and manage to wash and rinse a sink full of dishes on one gallon of water.  (same with bathing and washing my hair, also on alternate days - simple washing other times)  i haul all of my water from the spring and so have learned to be frugal with it.  my dishes and my self get plenty clean!
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  Quote catkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2008 at 12:36pm
I'm reading in books and hearing from kind people who advise me that some aspects of permaculture can be less labor intensive. One example may be a raised bed garden and the mulching methods that make tilling pretty much unnecessary. A lot of weeds that I might have pulled and discarded, I found out can be eaten. There are some wonderful books out there.
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  Quote smwon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2008 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by nomadx

hey i'm new. interested in homesteading and a sustainable lifestyle, i.e. don't have to constantly buy things to survive. while i've thought a lot about what will last through the decades and what won't, there are some things that i depend on so greatly now it is hard to imagine letting go. the main reason, is that complex mechanical and electrical appliances are destined to break. and most of them i have no clue on how to fix. worried that someday there will be no way to fix or replace them.
 
Originally posted by LodeStar

Dishwasher? Waste of water and energy. Washing machine...there are some fine ones around (Staber, Fisher/Paykel) which conserve energy, and use direct drive DC motors...vacuum cleaners don't take much power...and we have a Ryobi which has an 18volt rechargeable battery. Our refrigerator/freezer and a chest freezer are both 12 volt, with danfoss compressors...it's rare for refrigerators to break down...there are ones made in the 30s which are still going strong.
 

But... can you repair them yourself Bruce? I think that was part of the question.

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  Quote owl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2008 at 3:52pm
on permaculture:  i am a certified permaculture instructor and can say that once established, permaculture gardens are very low maintenance.  the initial preparation and establishment requires a fair bit of labor, but tilling is not a part of pc - the less soil disturbance the better.  raised beds are good, as are mixed plantings, mulching and dense plantings.  use as many perennial crops as possible (there is an interesting book called "perennial vegetables" by eric toensmeier).  root crops, groundcover types, herbaceous, shrubby, small,medium,large trees and vines, all mixed in together.  it is companion planting taken to the N'th! 
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  Quote Farmfresh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2008 at 11:55pm
Washing dishes by hand is easy if you have a good sink.  I bought a commercial one with two deep sink basins and a built in drainboard.

I agree with the hard surface floor idea.   A good hard surface floor, hardwood, vinyl, concrete, tile etc.  (no laminate) can be easily swept and scrubbed clean.  You will find the mud, animals, and winter wood supply just will not agree with carpeted floors. 

I have to have a good washing machine, but make my own laundry soap.  Too many dirty clothes.  A dryer however, is easy to live without. 

As far as permaculture gardening ...  fruit trees are pretty permanent!  Berries, and perennials like rhubarb and asparagus are also long lived.  In my zone 6 garden I often over winter garlic, onions, and potatoes, leaving some to start out the next year.   Many of my annuals will also self sow for the next year including:  Runner beans, squash, mustard, spinach, and other greens, as well as tomatoes, broccoli and brussle sprouts.    I use lots of mulch and seldom if ever till.  I simply push the mulch aside to plant.   Like several others said "Learn to work Smarter not Harder".  I even have a "walking compost bin" that I fill directly in the garden and simply move over as it gets half full and allow it to rot in place. 

Also you need to check out the Homesteading with a Handicap thread.  You will find many of the folks here are over 50 (and have no broken backs) and others are quite young and have some significant handicaps (even bad backs).  Each and every one of us do physical work each day and are far better for it. 

Oh and welcome ....  these folks will teach you a LOT!    
Farmfresh

"Stop Dreaming About the Good Life and Start Living It!"

http://www.ubuilderplans.com

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